Getting Your Transmission To Do Something Useful

If you have an early CJ nothing looks Jeepier, or occasionally comes in more handy, than a Winch. The debate rages on about what style of winch is best, PTO vs. Electric. vs. Hydraulic- all have their rabid proponents.


Anybody who comes within biting distance of me will get the PTO bug ;).


A few years ago I picked up a PTO & winch for Tonka. I was in the process of rebuilding them when my wife was involved in an accident, putting the PTO & winch on hold until the rebuild on Tonka is further along.

PTOs were Original "Optional" (Optional "Original"? "Original" Optional?? "Optional" Original???) equipment, thats in keeping with keeping Tonka as stock as possible. Also, more importantly, "He Who Has the Most Shift Levers Sticking Up Through the Floor Wins", so a PTO is definitely the way to go :).

From the CJ2 "AgriJeep" onwards as long as Jeeps were rolling out the door with Dana 18 & 20 transfer cases a number of manufacturers sold PTOs for use with their accessories. (1) More Stuff I wish I could afford :(.
Note: While it appears that the T86 transmission output gear used in the WWII MB & GPW also had the sprocket for a PTO I can't find any reference that suggests they actually used a transfer case mounted PTO, rather they appear to have been equipped with a capstan winch that was driven by a special crankshaft front pulley.


The great gran'daddy PTO appears to be the 18H, built by Spicer (a number of others also turned out what appear to be egg-zact identicular copies of this unit). The 18H is about as simple as something can be, one shaft, two bearings, one seal & a handle that engages a Dog Clutch with the sprocket on the back of the tranny output gear. On the back end of the PTO shaft you'll most commonly find a flange designed to connect a rear facing drive shaft meant to run a 3 point hitch PTO gear reduction box, although there were also models with pulleys or chain sprockets instead of the flange.


For winches mounted on the vehicle's front the 18H wasn't suitable. Manufacturers such as Ramsey (2) & Koenig (3,4) provided their own PTO designs for use with their winches, basically the exact same clutch mechanism as the 18H with a drop down torque box holding a chain driven shaft located in the lower end to clear chassis, engine/clutch/exhaust/etc. bitties going forwards. Other less popular models were put out by Braden & Rhino & perhaps Tulsa.

This version of the Ramsey looks very much like a Spicer with a box stuck on the back to hold the chain & lower shaft. I've also seen pictures of a more compact Ramsey that incorporates the clutch & box into the same casting. Koenig also was of the much more compact design, in two different versions due to some mounting differences between CJs (Model "51") and the Willys trucks & wagons (Model "41") The difference between the two is where the holes are drilled in the case for the mounting bolts. The 41 case has the holes rotated around clockwise a bit to allow the "dangle" angle to be lower. A sure fire way to tell the difference (besides reading the model # off the case :) ) is the the 51 case has a notch in it to allow clearing the CJ's driver side frame rail. Ramsey simply drilled two sets of mounting holes for the chain box allowing it to be mounted at either angle.
Also, both Ramsey & Koenig offered "Dual Stick" models, allowing the front & rear drives to be engaged seperately (sort of). These are much rarer, much more desirable (see the "He Who Has ..." statement above) & consequently much more valuable. Something else I want but can't $$$ justify :(.
Shameless Plea: Will somebody PLEASE send me some nice clean pictures of the Koenigs? Preferably a photo showing the two models next to each other ? Pretty Please?


The Braden appears very similar to the Ramsey. I'm not sure that Tulsa had their own line of PTOs, in the one picture I've seen of a Tulsa winch & PTO shows a unit that appears to be either a Rhino unit or a very close copy.



The Rhino PTO is a bit of a rare item, researching on the net turned up absolutely no references. None. Nada. Zilch. Zero. A plea for help on the Willys Tech mailing list only turned up one person who had ever owned one, & one other who had seen one someplace. Both were in agreement that as a PTO Rhinos are a POS, leaking oil out, if possible, even faster than you can pour it in :). Well, that may be, but I figure a POS PTO is better than NO PTO, so rebuilt it gets-



So, with today's theory lesson over it's time to do some shop work

These are photos I took of the dissassembly, mostly as a reference for when I have to put it back together. My apologies for the quality, you're looking at photos taken under poor conditions using cheap film, badly processed & digitized while my scanner was having a bad day :(.



This is what the Rhino looked like when I got it. Note the three pins on the input, this caused a lot of head scratching on exactly how this thing is supposed to mate to the tranny output gear. Also note the multiple mounting holes to adjust the Angle of the Dangle for either CJs or Trucks/wagons. Actually there's a Lot of extra mounting holes, I wonder what else this was designed to bolt up to- Unfortunately the shifter only seems to be right for a wagon/truck, bolted on at the right angle for a CJ the shifter will be coming out of the floor leaning to the left. I figure a few moments with the FBH should fix it right up-



As it turns out those three little pins slide between the teeth of the PTO sprocket. This doesn't seen like the strongest way of doing things, but the PO used this thing to haul his M38A1 off the ground on a regular basis so I guess it works-

Heres some photos showing how they engage the output gear & a comparison to an 18H PTO with the "normal" type clutch. On the Rhino the clutch is internal, the Three Pin Doohickey is always coupled to the tranny output.



Starting the teardown. There's really not much to these things. Pulling off the shifter & the back cover allows for removal of the clutch. The Three Pin Doohickey is pinned to the shaft, knock out the pin & it slips right off. Remove the chain from the sprocket & the upper shaft pulls right out-



So heres everything from the top end cleaned up & laid out nice & neat. Someday I'll get ambitious & draw in little lines connecting everything up like they do in the parts manuals, but it ain't today.




Same thing for the bottom end. The PO had welded the rear yoke to the lower shaft, I ground down the weld to get it off with the inevitable damage to the shaft. Machine shop time :(.




Heres some more detail on how the top end shaft & clutch is laid out. Note that there is no rear bearing, the shaft is entirely supported by the two bearings in the front of the case, one is visible & the other fits inside the case. Also note the return of our friend the Three Pin Doohickey for the clutch. The clutch rides back & forth on the splined end of the shaft, moved by the shift rail groove engaging the rim of the Doohickey. It's a little hard to see here but the shaft sprocket is a 15 tooth for #35 chain. This size sprocket is within a few thous of being exactly the same size as the 15 tooth clutch sprocket which is the exact same thing as the sprocket on the tranny output gear. This just kinda sticks in my head as being useful to know someday-



Just in case you were wondering, I've conclusively proven that a Rhino PTO Will Not fit a Warn PTO/OD Adapter without some machining:(. That's about it so far. I did get a new set of bearings & seals but further work will have to wait until Tonka's rebuild progresses to the drive train assembly. At that time I'll take advantage of the tub's absence to get the adapter, PTO, winch & drive shaft properly mounted to clear the exhaust & whatever else may interfere.



Some Useful Links I've found:
When I first started looking around for a winch & PTO I knew absolutely nothing about either. (Insert smartass remark here :) )
Some of these sites below taught me a lot, others filled in a lot of blanks. I recommend each of the highly.

  1. Neat info on use of PTOs & working equipment on early CJs can be found on the Farm Jeep site.

  2. There's a copy of an original Ramsey catalog on Merl's Garage

  3. See vintage Koenig manuals on Billy's 56 Willys Truck Site.

  4. Some general discussion on Winches, PTOs & Overdrives can be found Here on the Willys Tech site

  5. If you have a Warn or Saturn overdrive & want to mount a PTO, Herm Tilford has, on his rather aptly named web site, OD/PTO Adapters. He also has a number of other useful goodies (which hopefully someday I'll actually buy some of) as well as some excellent background info on various & different bitties.

    If you-

    a. Have any other info or links on information about these or other units you think I'd like to hear about-
    b. Think I've made a mistake on the facts-
    c. wonnt two pointe out taht im a terribul spieller
    or
    D. Would like to call me a Plagiarizing B******D

    Please feel free to contact me Here :)



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